What Podcasting Is Really All About | Buzzcast Team

Do you ever struggle with knowing where to focus your podcasting efforts? Many podcast hosts and guests get confused by all the noise in the podcasting space and, as a result, end up focusing on the wrong things. But it doesn't have to be this way! In this episode, Alban Brooke, Jordan Blair, and Kevin Finn (Hosts of Buzzcast) share their insightful perspectives on what podcasting is really all about. Get ready to level up your understanding of podcasting so you can focus on what matters!

MORE FROM THIS EPISODE: HTTPS://PODMATCH.COM/EP/290

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Ad Placements
02:16 Downloads vs. Human Listeners
03:39 Listener Consumption and Completion Time
06:19 The Unique Nature of Podcasting
08:11 Dispelling the Myth of Video as a Requirement
11:18 The Importance of Focusing on What Matters
13:37 Evolving Buzzcast Based on Listener Feedback

Takeaways

• Ad placements in podcasts should be well-placed and considerate of the listener's experience.
• Downloads in the first seven days of an episode can be a good indicator of subscriber engagement.
• Listener consumption and completion time of episodes are valuable metrics for understanding audience behavior and planning content.
• Podcasting is a unique medium that allows for multitasking and a more personal connection with the host.
• Video is not necessary for podcasting success and should not be seen as a requirement.
• Podcasters should listen to audience feedback and make adjustments to improve their shows.
• The Buzzcast team has implemented features like fan mail and AI transcription based on listener feedback.
• Recommended podcasts include 'On Fire with Jeff Probst,' 'Never Enough,' 'The Journal,' and 'The Jasmine Star Show.'

MORE FROM THIS EPISODE: HTTPS://PODMATCH.COM/EP/290

📊 This month's Independent Podcasters Report is now available! To see podcasting industry insights that matter for indie podcast hosts and podcast guests, please visit https://PodMatch.com/Report!

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Ad Placements
• 2:35 Downloads vs. Human Listeners
• 3:58 Listener Consumption and Completion Time
• 6:38 The Unique Nature of Podcasting
• 8:30 Dispelling the Myth of Video as a Requirement
• 11:37 The Importance of Focusing on What Matters
• 13:56 Evolving Buzzcast Based on Listener Feedback

Transcript

0:20

You're listening to Podcasting Made Simple. Hey everyone, welcome to Podcasting Made Simple. My name's Alex Sanfilippo, if we've not had the opportunity to meet. And today I'm super excited because I am joined by the Buzzcast team, which is a podcast I love to listen to. So we've got Albin, Jordan, and Kevin with us guys and gal. Welcome. So glad y 'all are here. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us, Alex. Yeah, this is fun. You all do this a lot. And so I'm kind of looking at this as a little bit of a takeover. Like I'm going to do my best to like try to be the host today, but I just don't know what's going to happen. So. But again glad to be here with you guys. I want to share with everybody This is a podcast that I love listening to is buzz cast So if you've not heard it and you want to hear another great podcast on podcasting go to buzz cast dot buzzsprout calm It's a really great show and in preparing for today's conversation I actually went back and listened to a bunch of the current episodes and fun fact Pod match is currently the advertisement on it. And so I get to hear myself a lot of times So I don't think it's converting very well anymore because I've listened to so many, but that's all right. We'll run another ad and try it again with you guys. But how are those, how are those ad placements? they're good. You all do a good job with it. You all like very, you guys use, I guess you kind of have like a role before and after it, which I really like. I think that they're really well placed. It's good. So the selection for those roles, like where they go is actually just like computer generated. I mean, some people might say AI, it's not real. It's just an algorithm that tries to figure out the best spot. And then in Buzzsprout, you can turn off a spot if it picks that you don't like. And so I'm always curious to hear when people hear their ads play, if they like the placement that they were dropped in. One of them from last week didn't work real well. So I unselected that one and it, it moved it around. But yeah, I'm usually pretty impressed. Yeah, I liked it. And so for me, what I liked is it was when I was taking notes on something and then it would like flip over to it. And if I'm taking notes, I need a break anyway. So that was like, to me, good placement is when I'm doing something like that. So kudos to you guys for. the AI slash algorithm, whatever we want to call it. So, yeah. Well, thanks for advertising on our show. That's fantastic. For sure. So this is gonna be like a bit of a unique state of podcasting episode because we're going to be using a lot of content from Buzzcast that I've just pulled off that I think is really meaningful that I want to dive into. But before I do that, I want to make sure that we make this valuable for both podcast guests and hosts. And I always like to start with downloads and this idea of downloads versus human listeners. And so where I like to pull this data from is actually straight from Buzzsprout who's my hosting provider for everyone listening and watching this. And so it's buzzsprout .com forward slash stats. And this is where you guys kind of go into a few things. And Al, but I want to ask you specifically, the thing I always look at is downloads in the first seven days. Can you talk about this for a little bit and give us some details on the numbers of podcasts right now? Yeah, we saw for years that people would quote all sorts of stats and they're always the stat that made them look the best. They'd be like, I have one episode. They got this many downloads, but all the rest didn't or. Maybe they would quote all time downloads or what it would be over a full month. So when everyone was quoting different things, it was confusing. And we came up with this idea of how many downloads does one of your episodes get in the first seven days? To us, that shows it's the closest to the number of subscribers, you know, the people who are every week. They download that episode automatically and then they listen to it. So. We went and we pulled across over 124 ,000 active shows on Buzzsprout and the median podcaster. So that's the person who's going to be there right at, you know, 62 ,000. If you rank them all, that person is getting 30 downloads on each episode in the first seven days. And mostly when I share this stat, the reaction is that's way lower than I expected. And it's also for podcasters, they get really excited because they go, I'm actually doing better. than I expected because we all see these massive shows and we think I should be doing smart list numbers. I should be getting up there with Joe Rogan pretty soon and we see, I'm actually well above average already. Yeah, so I like these numbers and looking at them because it shows the reality of podcasting when you take out the top 0.001%, right? Because there's not many shows that get that level and what we need to remember is 30 people listening, you know if that's what it is or if it's bumping up to the top. 10 percentile, which I think is like, I can't remember the exact number now, or 25 percent. I think it's like 100 or 471. Is that right? Something around those lines? That was perfect. Yeah. Nice. I did look today, just so you guys know. Photographic memory. Good job. I didn't have it written down, but I did look at it just a little while ago. But the reason I say that is you have to think of these not as just downloads. These are human beings listening to it. And podcasting is really unique. And we'll get into that in a little bit here. But I do want to mention something that, Kevin, you said in episode 119 of Buzzcast. And it's where you talked about, and you're kind of joking, but also I think pretty serious, that you wish there was a way to disable stats for people just getting started in podcasting so they could focus on what actually matters. Could you speak to this point a little bit? Yeah, I think you sum it up well. Like I, it is kind of in jest when I brought it up, but there's an important principle behind it. And that is that oftentimes creators will get discouraged because you're, you're, this is a marathon, right? And those, those first couple of miles of the marathon, can be a little discouraging, well, maybe not for a real runner, but for somebody who's starting out and training for a marathon and they go out and they run that first mile and they're like, how am I ever going to do 26 of these? It is brutal. And so I do like the idea of, you know, years and years and years ago when blogging was just starting out, nobody was really concerned about numbers. Like you could go get a little GeoCities hit counter and put it on your webpage or something. And it might give you some indication of the number of people who were hitting your homepage and maybe reading what you wrote. But that's not why people were writing. People were writing because they had something to share and they wanted to put something out in the world. And that's really what has drawn so many people to podcasting in the first place. And then now that we have all these high-end hosting solutions that gave great stats for everybody is that becomes a discouragement. And it's like, well, you never started podcasting in the first place because you needed to get a hundred thousand. I mean, there are a few people that do that, but for the most part, like what we love about podcasting and, and the people who we love in podcasting are coming because they have something that they want to share. They're passionate about a topic. They want to, you know, teach somebody something. They want to entertain somebody. They want to meet interesting people. They want to go on other shows and have conversations with other people. There's all these different reasons and very few of them track back to the exact number of people who are listening to each episode. So I just don't like it from the perspective of, you know, the first 90 days, like when you just start something out, when you just go to the gym for the first time, when you've just run that first mile, when you want to write a book and you write that first scratchy page, like the last thing you need when you're planting the seedling is somebody to come and stomp on it. What it needs is it needs sunlight and it needs water. It needs curation. It needs love. And I don't know that stats in the beginning deliver much love. And so I just liked the idea of, I wish there was a way to just ignore them, to turn them off. And so maybe that's something that comes to Buzzsprout someday is that we say, hey, you know, like, here's some reasons why you might, we have great stats. You might want to look at them someday, but maybe not now. And so maybe we give away to snooze stats or something. We talked about this challenge, this 90 day no stats challenge, and some people did it. You know, I don't look at stats all that much. So it's not, it wasn't a big thing for me, but it's something to think about if you're just starting a podcast, like do not, maybe, maybe just do your best to ignore the stats. It's hard not to look at them, but if you do at least remind yourself that that's not the most important thing. That's not why you started. And this is a long game. It's a long journey. So don't get discouraged. Yeah. You know, I, I, something I decided to do is I want to be public with my stats. I just think it'd be helpful for podcasters. So I signed up for OP3. And that's about added to the RSS. And so if you go to podmatch .com forward slash episodes, it literally has our numbers and you can just go click through it and take a look at it, which is something I just wanted to do because at the end of the day, it's not about having the most downloads. It's about reaching the people that you serve best. And the reality is if that's 30 people, if that's 50 people, that's better than reaching thousands of the wrong people for you. And so for me, I just think it's so important. And I want to transition this and Jordan, I'm gonna call on you here for this, but I want to talk about. the metrics that actually matter beyond total downloads. And yes, you can learn something from it. So I don't want to dog it too much. But I've always found that listener consumption or completion time of episodes is far more valuable. Can you speak to the point of what this has meant for you? Because I think your podcast gets more downloads than all of ours combined. So you can see some really high level data, right? Like on the consumption completion rates. Yeah. I mean, there's value in total downloads. Of course, you can see how many listeners are coming back for your episodes or calculate ad prices or just see the overall growth of your podcast. But episode consumption data plays a completely different and more important role in your listener behavior and planning your podcast content. So when you look at an episode's consumption, it's in a chart where you can see the beginning of the episode and the end of the episode. And you'll notice trends in these charts because it not only shows like when people quit listening and it dips off, but you'll also see a dip when they skip your content. So that comes in handy when you're planning your content or evaluating how listeners are reacting to your podcast. So for example, in my personal podcast, every single episode, I have a sponsored ad read in the exact same spot every episode. And when I look at my episodes consumption data, every single episode, there's this perfect little dip where my listeners are hitting skip twice. And it's not like a big enough deal for me to move my ad reads somewhere else. But maybe if you put your call to action, like at the end of your episodes for listeners to like support the show or leave a rating and review. And when you look at your episode consumption and the listeners consistently drop off when you start wrapping up your interview before that call to action, then it might be a good idea to move your call to action maybe to like the beginning of the episode or maybe do like a break in the interview. And then this can also apply to like your podcast segments or the episode length. And there's a lot that you can figure out from taking the time to look at your episode consumption and see if there's similarities or consistencies across all of your episodes. And this is your show, Dreamful Bedtime Stories, right? Yep. Did I say it right? You like paused. Did I say it right? I don't like say it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll leave that alone. My point is, could you find a way just to work it into the story and be like, and that's when little Rosie invested in a new 401k option. I don't know. No joke. I've had sponsors like reach out to me and say like, we want to do a branded Podcast episode where you work at in Europe said I'm like no As PTSD and goes to better health and get off with code dreamful Wow, man All right. I got to bring it back here So I think something's important for guests and hosts to think about is go to Apple and Spotify and take a look at those rates Right how far people making it and I'll say this a podcast with a hundred people listening to it has nearly 100 % completion rate from people is better than 10 ,000 people listening with only being 10 % making it through the episode. Like it means your content is stickier and it's reaching somebody that clearly is benefiting from it and they're coming back. And so to me, that's just such an important metric and I'm glad you brought that up, Jordan. I think it's really cool just to hear from somebody about that. And Kevin, you got something to add here, right? Yeah, I think one of the things I don't hear podcasters do often enough is just be honest and real with their podcasters when it comes to advertising. And so oftentimes you'll be listening to a podcast, it'll cut away for an ad and it'll cut back. And that's, that's all you, you don't have any context for what this means for the podcaster. And we're listening to the content because we'd like the content. We'd like the podcaster. We have some, we feel a connection with them as a listener. And so if you would take the time as a podcast host to explain to your audience that this is a passion project for me, or this is something I'm trying to go full time at. And the only way I'm going to make it is. with some of this ad revenue or if you support my show or subscribe to my premium offerings. Like if you let them know what it means to you as a podcaster and how it's going to help the show succeed and continue to go, then I think you're going to get a lot more people who are not skipping over those ads. You're going to say, Hey, you know, if you don't mind, take a listen to the ads. It's important. I curate the ads. I only choose the ones that I think would be a good fit for my audience. So if you hear about something that you think you might like, please click through and check out my sponsor because they're the reason that the show exists. Same thing with your premium content or whatever else you're doing. But if you're just cutting away to ads and then just coming back and you're not giving the listener any reason to engage with that ad, they're just going to think it's a commercial. And like we're trained when we sit on the couch and watch TV, it's a commercial. it's time to get up and get a drink or it's time to fast forward. If you have it on the DVR or whatever, it's time to tune out. But podcasting is different because you have this connection with the host. It can mean something to them, but are we as podcasters, are we letting our audience know how meaningful this can be? Yeah. That's good. And something you just mentioned is that podcasting is different. It reminds me, Albin, of an article you wrote. You guys also mentioned on episode 118 of Buzzcast where you said there's something different about podcasting. I think that's actually the name of the article itself. Can you talk about why this form of media is different than others? Right? And you said kind of in a joking manner, but you said it's the one form of medium that accepts that you have a life, which obviously there's a lot of truth to you. Can you just speak to that a little bit here? Cause I think it's a good time to talk about that. Well, so many different other types of media want your full attention and they can't handle being part of what you're doing. So you can't watch YouTube videos while you're driving a car. You can't do the dishes at the same time you're trying to read a book like these things need full attention. Tick Tock is trying to lock you in so deeply you can't notice people in the same room trying to talk to you. But podcasting is just in your ears. You can be out working out. You can be doing stuff around the house. You can be going for a long drive and it actually supports you. It's like the friend who rides along with you in the car to go do a you know, some something you didn't want to do anyway. But now it's better because you have a friend and I love that so much about podcasting. And I think that's why we see consumption data is so much higher in podcasting. We've put out the same piece of content as really long guides. as podcast episodes, as videos, as courses, like same content. And I'll be excited on YouTube if we get two minutes of watch time. I'm excited if we get four minutes on a blog. I'm excited if somebody does one or two modules of a course. But our podcast episodes, if we get anything less than 80 percent, I'm surprised. I'm going, OK, something wasn't great on this episode. Well, that could end up being something like 45 minutes of engagement. That is so much more valuable. 45 minutes of somebody engaging with one of our podcast episodes versus a bunch more people, because there are higher numbers, watching 30 seconds or a minute of a video. One of those people is going to convert and it's going to be the person who spent 40 minutes with us. The person who's going to tune out and never think of you again is the one who kind of hit the blog and moved on real quickly. This makes me think about the requirements of being a podcaster. because it's a different medium and there's no one size fits all. And actually I think of a quote Jordan that you said when you first joined the Buzzcast team and thank you for being here by the way on Buzzcast. I think I even left a review about that at one point. Just I'm like, it's great to hear a female voice on this show. But you said something that I think was the very first episode with you and you said, podcasting is very fluid. There's no one size fits all. There's no advice that's gonna apply to everybody. And... again, that's something else that makes podcasting special. And I think back to episode 125 of Bus Gas, where Kevin, you specifically mentioned, and I'm going to paraphrase this here, but the notion that you need to have a YouTube channel be successful as a podcaster is like saying that if you write a book, you also need a movie to be successful. And I like that so much. I actually posted that on social media and people were furious. And typically, I'll be real, typically I delete that type of stuff. Like my channel is not, like none of my channels are for like, I don't know, arguments and stuff like that, but I didn't delete it because so many people were messaging me saying thank you. Like I didn't feel like I could post on it because everyone's being really rude, but I wanted to say thank you for sharing that. That gave me the freedom to not do video. Kevin, I just want to hear your perspective on this and not just necessarily a video thing, but in general, why it's not necessarily required to do more than just create audio, right? To be a podcaster. Can you just kind of riff on this a little bit? Yeah. I mean, it is a bit of a controversial statement for sure, because you know, video, a lot of people are having a lot of success in video online. And my point wasn't to diss video at all. There's nothing wrong with video in and of itself. The thing that I'm taking issue with in the podcasting space is that the way to level up your podcasting game is to go into video. And I look at these things as two totally different things. Can they coexist and work together? Absolutely. But a lot of influencers or coaches in the space are recently kind of getting on this bandwagon of that's the next logical evolution to up your podcast game is to get into video. And when you're talking about like, I do think there is an apt comparison between writing a book and doing a movie. Like I think it works the other way a lot better. If you already have a movie, like you've already written a screenplay and stuff as part of making the movie. So adapting that into a book isn't probably that hard, but going from a book to a movie is a huge leap, right? Actors and sets and Taking the original text and making it dialogue and everything else that goes into doing that It's much harder and that's where I think we are with podcasting doing a podcasting segment That's audio only and then transferring that into video requires a whole lot more requires cameras requires you got to do your hair I got shaved my head this morning because Alex is going to put me on video like I never shaved my head before I do a buscast episode And so here I am in the morning shaved my head because we're on video today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And so it's just a whole another thing, whether you have to shave your head or not. And I think again, cause I care about independent podcasters. I want more independent podcasts to spur up and to get some traction. And for me to find them and for me to enjoy listening to them when I'm walking my dog or driving my car or whatever, I don't need the video component, but I want these creators to exist. And so as many hurdles as we can knock down, that's what I'm interested in. And I feel like video is just a big hurdle that a lot of people are trying to put in front of podcasters. Some of the biggest podcasters in the world. have no interest in doing video, have never done video. You don't have to do video. And so I'm not saying you can't do it or you shouldn't do it. What I'm saying is do not let it take you out of the creator space because a lot, you can do a really great podcast without the video component. And so, you know, the argument against it is, Hey, ignore YouTube at your own peril. Well, I say embrace YouTube at your own peril because it is a lot of work, a lot of work, and it might take you out of the creator space entirely. And so. Just don't accept the statement that you have to do it. You can do it. And if you're excited about doing it, let's go. But if you're not, audio podcasting is awesome and you can totally just do that and you can be very successful. We got all the same advice a few years ago about email newsletters. Everyone was like, you've got to have an email newsletter for your podcast. And there were people who were like, you've got to have your own website and you're blogging on that website. You've got to be promoting the podcast on social media. You've got to, and it's like there's so much. All these things go into building a media empire that would be really, really cool. But most people have a job and they've got families and they have hobbies. And they on top of that said, you know, I really love one of my hobbies. I'd love to share about it on a podcast. That's their dream. So let that be the dream. Don't tell them you can only do this thing if you also promise you will do everything else and try to become. a full time creator who burns themselves out. And I think that all we're trying to do is give people permission to just do the thing they want to do. And for some people, that's just doing, you know, an Instagram page. It's OK if that's what you want to do. You don't also have to do podcasting. I personally love podcasting. But if you find something else is your passion, go for that. Don't overload yourself and burn out before you get to even find out if you liked these things in the first place. Yeah. Jordan, did you have something to add there? No, I think that's really good. I felt like I was about to cut you off. That's why I asked. No, I was just like, that was a solid answer, Alvin. Yeah, I agree. Very solid answer. Sorry to call you out, Jordan. So the thing I really like about this notion is this also applies to podcast guests. And it's one of the reasons on PodMatch, we literally ask people when they're signing up, do you want to be on audio podcasts only or also are you OK with video? And guests all the time email me like, hey, do I have to do video? They're new to it often and they're like, hey, I've been in the business world for 25 years, but I've never been on camera once in my life. And we just tell them, no, you do not have to. And when people are like, if you're not on video, you're missing a huge opportunity. It's like, maybe you're not. If you're comfortable there, it'd be like, man, let me go back to when I was blogging. The first time I hit post on a blog, I was so nervous. If someone would have been like, hey, you also need to turn into a podcast, needs to be a video and you need to like start all these other channels. I've been like, I'm not going to do it. I'm sorry. I'm already freaked out just posting this with my name on it in the internet and putting it out to the world. So. I think the notion that we need to do more than we're comfortable with is just possibly causing people to quit faster or causing that not start. So I want to get real practical here before we come to a close here. I want to talk about Buzzcast's evolution. You all get a lot of listener feedback, which the listeners are podcasters to your show. So you get some really like unique feedback and you guys added a new feature, which I love. Fan mail is great. Like we're getting fan mail for our podcast, which allows listeners to text into the show. And I think that's super cool, but I'm wondering just like some rapid fire stuff. What are you all learning and how are you changing BuzzCast based off what you're learning? And are you even changing it? Something that immediately comes to mind when you ask that is when we first started doing Boostergrams, listeners could send in money with like a message. And so we like added a segment where we'd read off those messages. And there was this like, honestly, very out of place FM radio style, like, it's time for a bus boost stinger. Was it your voice? Was it that? Did you just repeat word for word? No, I mean, it was pretty close to that. And then we'd like read the boost and our listeners hated it. They hated it. And we still wanted to support like value for value. And we wanted to have listeners interact with us and like, you know, have things like that. And so What wound up happening was we decided to put a little bit more intentionality into the segment and we were like, okay, well, what if we tie in this segment with the content of our episodes and we ask our listeners a question and the listeners can write in with their thoughts and their opinions and we work it into the content. And now it's like a hugely popular segment. Honestly, it sometimes takes up like half of our episodes just reading all the content that comes in. And so, you know, I would say that like listening to our audience and taking their feedback into consideration has vastly improved our show. Yeah. And let me go ahead and let Jordan off the hook for that. I'm the one that went to Fiverr and paid for this, the Buzzcast or Buzzboost Stinger. And it wasn't just our audience that hated it. It was also Jordan and Albin equally hated it. And I thought it was hysterical. And so I forced it into the show for like two months. And then they would always beg to take it out. And finally we heard from enough people and they're like, Kevin, it's not funny. It's a terrible joke. Please stop doing this. I've really loved the times where Buzzcast influences Buzzsprout as a platform. I mean, I went back and pulled up this old episode recently. We're at the beginning of the year. We're reading off the seven or eight ways to interact with the show. Jordan's like, you could send us an email. You could give us a voicemail through this system. You could send us a buzz boost. You can reach out to us on Twitter. Twitter's now X. You can read you on that. She does all the list. And eventually, Kevin's just like, I'm so sick of this. We just have to have one way. We have to figure it out. And then next week we were like, hey, we're going to experiment with some texting stuff. And we see that that works. quickly became the dominant way we were doing stuff on our show. But I think it was like that day when I was like, Hey, we got a bunch of texts. Kevin goes, don't talk about it too much. We're probably going to build this now. And so like, then it becomes like a way for us to stress test things in real time and learn what podcasters really need transcripts. We wanted to transcribe our own stuff and it was just painful. So then we figure out we probably need to do something more with transcripts, make it a little bit simpler. all of our co -hosts, AI features where we knew we loved doing the episode. But at the end, you upload it and you're like, I'm just kind of tired of this episode. Now I don't want to listen to it again to come up with chapter markers and descriptions and titles. this is actually a great place where we could use the AI once we use it for a little bit. Let's see if we can implement it into the system. So I think that's been a really fun iterative process we've had. Figure out a problem on Buzzcast, solve it. and then pitch it to the rest of the team. Let's actually build this thing. It's super smart. And to me, a red flag in the software space of podcasting is when the software company doesn't have a podcast because they don't get that direct frontline experience themselves. So they're just guessing what people want. You are building based off of yourselves as podcasters, which I really appreciate. And by the way, my big takeaway with by listening to Buzzcast myself is you all figure out how to do what I consider to be like the recipe for success in podcasting, which is you meet at the intersection of entertainment and education. Like it's fun, but I also leave learning something. And I think that that really, the reality of it like is, is that that's what's powerful and stories help with that. And nothing else that is even like, I think of comedians. One of my biggest takeaways in life recently was something a comedian said. They've learned that we have to add something educational in here as well, because that's what will stick versus just the joke. It's in the story. It's something you can actually learn. So with that said, I want to kind of end here today with talking about podcasts that you all have enjoyed listening to. So just one from each of you. What are you listening to and what do you love about it? and we'll just go down the line here. So Jordan, why don't you start us off? All right. So before we were recording, we were talking about Survivor and how you had Liz from this most recent season on the last live event. And I was so excited. But one of the things that has just really enriched my fandom of the Survivor series is the On Fire with Jeff Probst podcast. It is the best companion podcast. to any show I have ever listened to because they break it down in a way that makes sense for podcasting. And it's not just them talking about like the most recent episode, it's them going into, you know, what, how they start a season, what ramps up, you know, what departments do. And they talk to the department heads about what they go into for it. And I just, I think it's amazing. It's such a good podcast. That's cool. Who's next? You. Perfect. How about I go Alex? By the way, this is my first time doing a podcast with three people, so forgive me for being a little awkward. It's not easy. No, it's not. You're doing great. You're doing great. All right, how about I go? I picked out for the answer to this question, I picked out Never Enough, a new podcast by Andrew Wilkinson. And so Andrew is, he's been around in the tech space forever. And kind of the pitch for his show is that he gets to talk to interesting people in the software business all the time. And so he wants to start recording some of these conversations. So other people. can listen in kind of fly on the wall of conversations that he's having normally. Now I actually, you know, I'm not resonating a ton with Andrew a lot as a host, but I'm really loving the guests that he's having on. And so, and, and, and what I'm enjoying about Andrew is that he's new to podcasting. I think he only is like two and a half. He's got two episodes in a trailer. And so I'm interested in seeing if I connect with him more over time as he hones his craft a little bit, because it is very conversational. It's not. a typical podcast interview. So if it becomes maybe too typical, maybe I'll like it less. I don't know, but it's a new show and I'm enjoying it. I don't love the name, Never Enough. my gosh. I think that's terrible. Like we should all have some sort of picture of what enough is and maybe he doesn't. wait, sure. I heard it as like, this is going to be a podcast about how we feel like we never have enough, but maybe we do have enough and maybe that's what a lifestyle business. I hope that's where he's going with it. But it doesn't sound like it. It sounds like he's like, it's the opposite. More, more, more. I'm like, yeah, that doesn't really resonate with me. Or it never can get enough of the podcast. All right, Alvin, what do you got? I've actually probably this year picked up five or six new shows, but I will pick the journal that is the Wall Street Journal's daily podcast that they're doing in conjunction with somebody at Spotify. And they've done this really interesting series recently on Ozempic. And so they. did an episode about the all those weight loss drugs and how they develop them. Then they've done episodes about how why they're so expensive and what it's doing to the health care system. And then they're doing episodes about people, like real life stories. And it is just so, so well done. The daily podcast that they do, where they get deep into like economic story or it's always something much a little bit more deep and it's less politically. charge just maybe some of the other like daily news stories mostly are. And this is just like they pick one topic, they go really deep and specifically that series they've been doing on a Zempix just been really fascinating. So I've been recommending that a lot lately. Really cool. I'll go ahead and share mine. I've actually been enjoying the Jasmine star show. Her and I think really similarly, but she has the female perspective. And so I find I learned a lot. Alicia, my wife told me not to say it this way, but I'm like, she's a beast, but not in a bad way. Like just the way she shares, like her solo content is so like, I can sit there and take notes. I'm like, I think that way. But again, the female perspective is helping me really grow a lot. Cause I just have my male perspective. So that's, that's been a show I've been really enjoying lately. So, we have to be careful with those adjectives when we're describing women. My daughter and I were both working out in the gym yesterday and, and I was, I was like, man, I'm looking thick. And she's like, yeah, you are. And I was like, so are you, you're looking thick too. And she's like, that is not good. Never say that to a girl. The adjectives don't go both ways. Yeah. Like if someone's like, dude, Alex, you're a beast. I'm like, thank you. But Alicia is like, when you call a woman a beast, she's like, excuse me, right? So I meant that in the nicest way possible. So hopefully if she has an opinion to this, she'll appreciate it. But anyway. Albin, Jordan, Kevin, this was a blast. Thank you so, so much for being here, guys. I appreciate you all. Thank you, Alex. We appreciate all you do for podcasting. Thanks, Alex. Thank you for having us. For more episodes, please visit podmatch.com forward slash episodes. Thank you so much for listening.