Podcast Success Plan for Hosts and Guests | Alex Sanfilippo

Although podcasting is becoming more popular than ever, most podcast hosts and guests still quit long before seeing any meaningful results. This is the sad reality of the podcasting industry, but it’s also the biggest opportunity for a serious podcast host or guest! In this episode, Alex Sanfilippo shares a simple, data-driven plan to outlast the competition, stand out, and build a legacy through podcasting. Get ready to discover your clear roadmap for becoming a highly successful podcast host or guest!

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Chapters

00:00 The Journey Begins: Discovering Podcasts
02:40 The Podcasting Landscape: Statistics and Trends
07:28 Keys to Success in Podcasting
13:10 Hidden Benefits of Podcasting
17:58 Defining Success in Podcasting

Takeaways

The first time I heard a podcast was in 2012.
I was officially a podcast listener and I loved it.
Less than half of people that start a podcast make it to eight episodes.
Consistency is key.
You are bettering your voice through podcasting.
You hone in your offer and your call to action.
Build relationships through podcasting.
You're adding value to someone else's life.
Define what success means to you in podcasting.
Don't grow weary of doing good.

MORE FROM THIS EPISODE: HTTPS://PODMATCH.COM/EP/380

Transcript

The first time I ever heard a podcast was in 2012. Now I actually never forget it. I was in the aerospace industry at that point. I was a senior executive and I like to be a person of the people.

What I mean by that is I like to go through my different divisions and apartments and talk to everybody meet everybody and make sure like I just knew who was working to help the Culture of it out right and so the one day I was actually going from my floor the company down to the warehouse Which is a big open room everyone kind of worked in the same area and the inventory was down there shipping receiving all those things right so I get into that part of the warehouse and it's it's a big open space so can hear the echo of What I thought was maybe like a TV show that somebody might have been watching or something like that I really didn't know I walked through the whole inventory and I get to the back everyone's back there doing stuff

And right when I walk out there, everyone's like, hey, Alex. And I'm like, hi, everybody. I flip and turn to see what they're watching on the screen. And to my shock, there's nothing on that screen. The screen's just blank. And I kind of point out, I'm like, what are you all listening to? What is this? And everyone's like, oh, it's a podcast. It's like super good. And they start explaining what it was. And I was like, wait, hold on, hold on. What's a podcast? And they're like, oh, it's basically like an audio conversation between two people. again, going on the ramp, I'm like, hold on, hold on. That's so lame.

Like, no, it's not. It's amazing. And so like we're down there talking back and forth. I'm like, this is ridiculous. Like you actually have an app for it on your phone. I was like, no, I don't like, yeah, it's the little purple one. And I opened up my phone. I'm like, well, what do you know? I do have this podcast thing, huh? I'm like, it's still weird guys. Anyway, long story short, I walk out of that department, but on my way out, I click into that app because I heard something back on their computer that had no screen on that seemed interesting to me. I clicked, I typed in a little search and what do you know? I found something that was actually very interesting to me. The topic. I was like, wow, I actually want to hear this.

And about 20 minutes later, I was hooked. was officially a podcast listener and I loved it. I started listening to all kinds of things, started learning and growing from it. And I got really excited about it. And just half a year later, I'd say, I decided to start my first show. I was like, I've listened to a lot of things, I'm going to do it. And I will admit back then it was a little harder, but I'll get into the data in a few minutes here. Things haven't really changed. But eight weeks after I started this podcast, I did what we call in the biz, pod fade. I had given up. I had stopped. I went from like loving to listen to him, deciding I'm going to start a show to eight weeks later being like,

This is too much. I don't want to do it. I can't. I give up. Hey, my name is Alex Sanfilippo. And if I've not met you before, I'm really excited to spend this time with you. And I'm looking forward to diving into an industry report that I developed, but also some ideas for developing a plan for a podcast guest or a podcast host to be able to succeed long-term so you don't pod fade like I did like so many others do. As I just mentioned, I'm not alone in that. And I'll share some of the data in just a second here. But I also end up making it in podcasting, which I'm really grateful for. had a second, third, and fourth show.

And all three of those I'd consider very, very successful. Second show I was able to sell. Third show I rolled into my fourth one, which is this show, Podcasting Made Simple. And these have done very, very well because I learned something from that first mishap with podcasting, right? After eight weeks realizing, hey, I didn't really go into this the right way and I podfaded. That is so common in podcasting still. Even though was harder back then, it might even be worse now because it's so easy. There's a minimal effort to get involved into it. So I'm going to read a couple of these things off my screen here. And if you want to see this report, it's podmatch.com.

First off, when we look at this data, the overall industry buzz of podcasting, we consider it to be very high. At any point, if go to search engines that talk about like trends that people are talking about in the world, podcasting is always way, way up there. If you go to like Google specifically talks about like the percentage, it's almost always like in the high 90s to a hundred percent, like one of the most trending things in the world, which that's really cool, right? From the listenership perspective, we also rate the health very high.

because we're finding that it's continuously climbing its highest rate it ever has. Like more and more people are listening to podcasts every single day. It's mentioned on TV shows, movies, and in daily lives, right? We talk about podcasting, which is really cool. Then we look at podcasters themselves, both hosts and guests. So both sides of microphone, the health is what we consider to be very low. Although there are millions of podcasts out at this point, there's only ever about 14 % that are active. So 14 % of all the millions of podcasters, that's not very many.

It's around 400,000 at time of recording this. That number really hasn't moved much. Like we keep on finding that more and more people quit. So I say 14 % right now, eventually 13%. And that number of 400,000 might not change. hasn't changed in years at this point. So I feel like saying that number, even though it's like a hard number, might be evergreen, at least until we can change something, right? But get this. So when we look at independent interview-based podcasts, because that's kind of what we track within PodMatch, right? That's what our service does, guests and hosts for interviews. We're always tracking the independent shows that are doing interviews, because that's good for both our guests and our hosts.

There's about, there's just under 120,000 of them at any given time that are active. Like think about that, 120,000 podcasts. And people are like, hey, Alex, like, I think I'll be in a guest on a show. I'm thinking about being a host, like, but it's so saturated. The reality is it's not. You think about how many hundreds of millions of people listen to podcasts every week. Like that number isn't very big, right? Like there's not as many options as we like to say that there are. And here's the thing, there just really isn't.

a whole lot of people that are making it in podcasting. Again, that's what I wanna talk about today, but I wanna share this data because I think it's very eye-opening. Do know that less than half of people that start a podcast as a guest or as a host make it to eight episodes? Whether you're a guest or host, like less than half of the people deciding I'm gonna be a host and be a guest, they get started, they do it, right? So they have one under their belt. From that one to eight, less than half of people make it that far. And we're seeing that number get worse and worse and worse, the amount of people actually making it. And then I'd consider like the sweet spot of podcasting, whether you're a guest or a host,

to be that 100 episode mark. So for a weekly show, just an example, that's basically two years. And I'm like, hey, be a guest on one every week for two years, be a host, release an episode every week for two years. That's kind of like when you can really start seeing some results that we've found. Less than 5 % of people ever do that. Again, talk about unhealthy, right? As an industry, yeah, the industry is doing great from a exposure perspective, from a listener-ship perspective, but from guest and host perspective, it's doing really bad. People just aren't really making it right now.

And so when we finally, this last number I wanna share here is when we look at, we consider like actively established, which means podcasters that have passed that hundred episode mark as a guest, as a host, the people that have kind of continuously improved their show, people that have really honed in their guesting efforts, we call it actively established. There's about 35,000 shows. And then the guests are around that same amount that have actually been able to do this, which that's a big number, right? But get this, 95 % of all listenership for podcast is among that category of people.

So that 35,000 shares 95 % of all the listening, the listenership. So we go back to those other higher end numbers, right? The 120,000, anyone beyond that 35K, right? Is kind of fighting over just the 5%. So you like think about it, like the people that have made it, it's a smaller segment, it's a smaller group. And so when we are looking at this data, it's so important that we really think about, okay, well then how do we make it there ourselves? How do we ensure this success when basically it looks like everyone in podcasting just continuously fails, right?

And so again, I encourage you go look at this report. That's podmatch.com slash report. It gets updated every single month. And we have a lot of partners in it to make this data available. And I think it can be very motivating, but also gives you a reality check. What podcasting is for guests and for hosts. And what I want to talk about today are two different things. First, I want to talk about four things we need to commit to in order to make it in podcasting. And then after that, I want to share five benefits that you will receive from podcasting. Again, as a guest or as a host, for both these things, but these five things that are benefits that you will get before you

air quotes here, see any benefit. So they're kind of like the hidden benefits of being a podcast guest or podcast host. But first, I want to talk about the things that you have to commit to in order to actually make it. And I encourage you take some notes here, because I'm going to go quick, but I think it'll be really, really helpful. Number one, the very first thing is you have to remember that consistency is key. Always remember this. Consistency is key. And I think that if you've heard me speak, you've probably heard me say that if you listen to any productivity expert or anybody talks about habits like

Consistency, like that's the thing, right? But we've got to always bring it up because it just seems that people don't understand that. Even early podcasting Alex, right? Eight weeks, eight episodes, oh, I made it then I quit, right? I didn't stay consistent with it and not saying I needed to, maybe it was the wrong show, something like that, right? But we've got to be able to stay consistent. Now, a few things about consistency. It's to what you can do, to what you can do. If you're a podcast guest and you're looking at people doing 100 episodes a year and you're like, ah, but I can't.

That's the consistency you have to keep up with. Or if you're the host being like, man, these daily podcasters, that's the consistency I got to aspire to be and to keep up with. That's not true. You're running your own race. You're doing your own thing. What are you able to do really well? So for me, as a podcast host, if I go back to my first successful show, the one that I sold, I did one monthly 15 minute episode. And sometimes it was 20 minutes when I would do an interview. So if a solo was 15 minutes, if an interview was about 20 minutes. And it was like four simple questions. Like it was a really simple framework.

That show did extremely well, well enough to sell, right? So it wasn't a bad show, but that's what I could commit to. I could consistently do once a month for four years before I end up selling the show, right? That's what I was able to commit to. Now I'm not telling you that that's like the secret sauce, it's what can you do? So now my show is I do 52 episodes a year. It's one a week. Me and the team are comfortable doing that. One of my guests, I actually used to do 100 a year and for the first time, I'm cutting that back down to 52 per year. I wanna do one per week, because I find

I can keep up with that. show up in the best possible way when I do that number. But more than that, I don't have the capacity right now. That's okay. Maybe for you, maybe your podcast guests and you're like, I think I can do one a month because that's how I can share it really well. So I can promote it well. Great. Do one a month. Host, listen, if you're like weekly is like the goal. I really wish I could get there. First off, say why? But second, just do every other week. That's okay. But consistency matters. Commit to the cadence that you're going to release episodes and stick with it. I know I'm talking a lot about this point, but this one is

just so, so important. Number two is focusing on continuous improvement. So just because you're consistent doesn't mean your podcast is going to grow. It doesn't. You have to still be improving. So when you figure out a better way to title your episodes, when you figure out a better way to do show notes, when you figure out a better way to interview, when you figure out a better introduction, better cover art, when you can improve this, improve that, it. Keep it in line though, right? It doesn't mean doing more.

when you're consistently improving, means actually doing less, not more. So keep that in mind. I'm not telling you do more things. I'm saying maybe do less. So if you're a podcast guest, you're like, well, I talk about 10 different things. So could go on a ton of different shows. Maybe talk about one, maybe two, and just stick to that. Try that. Does that simplify, make it easier and figure out how to improve your craft in that area really narrow and really specifically. When you find a better way to do something, basically do it is what I'm getting down to. When you find a better way to communicate something, do it. Stay a student. Keep on learning. Continuous improvement is my second point here.

I'm telling you, this will really help you a lot. When that's company with consistency, those two things alone, that moves the needle over time. Number three, never running out of things to say. I know that as podcast guests, we feel like we repeat our message again and again and again and again. You have to remember that each time you're a guest on a podcast, you are on a different stage. No podcast has the same listeners as another podcast. It might be similar people, but it's never the same people everywhere. A little overlap, maybe, sometimes. But the reality is you're probably reaching an entire

different segment of people. If you've got a message that can serve people, keep on sharing it. Podcast hosts, if you're like, well, my most popular episode is this one I did about tax planning, but I already covered that episode, so I don't know what else to cover that's gonna move the needle. Guess what? You should be doing tax episodes a lot, right? Find a different way to say the same thing. Bring on a different guest as a slightly different perspective, because if your listeners are basically telling you by listening, I like this, do more of it. Don't be afraid to repeat what's important.

Going back to my corporate days, we always said the same thing over and over again. People are like, yeah, I know it. They would repeat it to you, your employees, right? I'm like, good. That's why we repeat it, because it's important. We need everyone to know this. It needs to be part of the DNA of this podcast. So I encourage you, don't run out of things to say. Keep on saying the same thing if it's good. While you're focused on continuous improvement, while you're staying consistent, right? Last one here, number four, be okay with the silence. Being okay with the silence. I think this might be the number one reason that people pod fade on either side of the microphone. You feel like you're speaking into the void.

You feel like nobody is hearing anything that you say. You feel like nobody cares. Your listeners, did they even exist? Right? Hi, mom. Will you say hi to me? Right? Like we kind of feel that way. But the thing is, it might be a while before we hear something. And the encouragement I want to give is don't grow weary of doing good. Don't grow weary of doing good. If you know your podcast or your podcast guesting efforts is doing something good for somebody and you're like, hey, even if it's one person listening, it's worth it. Don't give up on that. It's okay.

For now, get into communities with other podcasters. Maybe do that anyway, right? Like even if you have listeners reaching out to you, like get into community, being around other podcast guests, other podcast hosts that are like-minded, that are there to serve will help you just continue going even when you feel like it's silent. Don't grow weary of doing good, keep at it. These four points right here are so important that you have to commit to if you want to ever get the meaningful results that you're seeking in podcasting. again, consistency is key, continuously improving, not running out of things to say, and being okay with the silence.

Now, listen, I want to go on to the five hidden benefits of podcasting. These are the five things I'm going go really quick on, but these benefits are happening from the very first time you release a podcast episode or you're a guest on a podcast. If you're doing these things immediately, these five benefits are happening. They're invisible for most of us. We don't think about them, but I'm telling you, these might be better than what you're thinking anyway. And I'm going to tie it all back to what you might be thinking anyway. But first, I want to go through these five things. Number one, the SEO benefit of podcasting on either side of microphone is second to none.

People regularly ask me, like, Alex, how did you build a website like PodMatch with such high domain authority? People are like, you did it so fast. It's not possible from an SEO perspective. Everyone says you can't do it. We built PodMatch on the back of podcasting as a host and as a guest. And I'll tell you what, when you're getting backlinks every single day from Apple, Spotify, Amazon, YouTube, hundreds of other super high domain authority websites, that tells the internet.

Whoever this is is legit, because all these big companies, the biggest ones in the world say that they are legit, therefore they are legit. Every time you're on a podcast, even if it has zero listeners, even if your podcast is absolutely terrible, I'm not saying to release a terrible podcast, right? You're going to get the SEO benefit, which there's nothing better on the internet right now than that. It's the single best thing you can do. I can't think of a single website that has higher domain authority than the combination of Spotify, Apple, Amazon, and YouTube. Point out that website, right? That's higher domain authority than those four combined. There isn't any. So you're maximizing,

the top effort of what SEO can do. Doesn't matter if anyone listens, that's number one. That's a benefit that you get from day one. The more you do it, the more consistent you do it, the better it does for you. It's compounding interest. Number two, you're discovering your own voice. I don't care if you're the world's greatest speaker and have been on hundreds of stages. I don't care. I've done that too. Podcasting is its own thing. Every time you share as a host, every time you share as a guest, you are bettering your voice. If you can get your mindset right, this is how you can level up as a true communicator.

In my mind, podcasting makes you a better communicator than a stage does. And listen, I know there's professional speakers out there. I don't mean any disrespect by saying that. I've been on hundreds of stages myself. I'm a better communicator based off what I've learned through podcasting than any other medium out there. Your voice is getting better. Your message is getting honed in. You are learning to articulate in a way that people will understand. That right there, that's worth this whole thing. If you're just speaking to yourself into a camera and nobody hears it, it's already worth it, right? Because that will follow you everywhere you go in life. Number three.

is you hone in your offer and your call to action. How many of us have this happen? You share like what you do and people are like, I think I get it, right? Or I'm not really sure I understand what you're doing, right? All that happens and as you get more reps and you share it more, eventually you get it narrowed down to be something so simple that anybody on earth can understand what you're offering, right? You're honing in your offer. You're figuring out how to give your call to action. When someone asked me for like a pitch of pod match, no one ever asked for it like that directly, right? But even in person, if someone's like, I could tell, this is good chance for me to talk about pod match.

share exactly what it is and the benefit for them specifically where they're at within 30 seconds. I once did it, my co-founder was with me he goes, dude, like after the person walked away, he's like, you just sold them on PodMatch in 30 seconds and they literally walked away signing up for it. I'm like, yeah, it made sense. They needed it and I just positioned it the way that they would get what they needed. And sure enough, they wouldn't signed up for it, right? It's because I've gotten the reps in. Number four is you want to build relationships with it. Build relationships. So many of us are like, think of podcasting as just like a rep game. You check it off, right? You're done. No, no.

Keep in contact with your guest. Guest, keep in contact with your host. Build those relationships. You are building a global connection, like with so many different people, so many different backgrounds. Like you have a Rolodex, it's unbelievable if you can just continue to keep those doors open and build those relationships. Never underestimate the power of the relationship from podcasting. It's that meaningful experience you need to have a good foundation to build on top of. And five, the last one here is remember you're adding value to someone else's life. You're adding value to somebody else's life. Whether you're a guest or as a host,

There's a listener that's hearing it. The other party in that green room or that recording studio, whether it be virtual or in person, they're hearing that you're impacting somebody's life positively. It doesn't matter what kind of show you have. Never underestimate how valuable and powerful it is. Listen, I believe in doing for one what we could do, wish we could do for all. Right. I can't change the whole world, but I can change one person's life today. Every chance to get the opportunity that 52 times a year when I'm doing a podcast guest things out of things or 52 times a year when I'm a host, that's how many people I'm going to impact this year.

with my content as a podcast guest and a podcast host. All right. In closing, I talked about what it takes to be successful, right? The plan that you need to come up with. The most common thing I hear from people wanting to quit being a podcast guest or host is this. I'm quitting because I'm just not successful. I'm not a successful podcast host. I'm not a successful podcast guest. And I would just ask, well, what does that mean to you? What does success mean to you? I have never once had anybody be able to answer that question. Unspecific goals yield unspecific results.

If you can't tell me what success is, you can't tell me that you're unsuccessful or that you're successful. We need to remember what the real value is behind what we're doing. Those five hidden benefits, those are the real value. And if you do these four things I talked about earlier, you're going to end up getting there. We can't grow weary of doing good and in due time we will get there, but we just can't stop. And so if you're saying, Alex, I don't actually know what success means for me. Take time to define it. Think about the context of the four and the five things that I shared.

build it within that framework. And I'm telling you, you can end up being a really successful podcaster in due time. Whether you're host or a guest, you can make it. You can do really well. You can serve the world at a really high level. So I hope this really encourages you today and you understand some of the benefits that are happening even now as you're podcasting. I hope it really encourages you to keep on going. Stand the test of time. So few people do, but if you do, you're going to do really well in this podcasting space for years to come. Again, my name is Alex Sanfilippo and I thank you so much for spending this time with me today.